“Show Notes”
This week, Marcus is talking to Heike Delmore, while Sam is on a break, so not part of the show. Heike is a branding photographer. She started in marketing both in Germany and Canada. About 13 years ago, she married her photography and marketing skills together and made her brand photography business. She says many customers don’t know what brand photography is. Many of them come for a headshot, but they don’t want this. They want brand photos but don’t always know how to verbalise this.
Heike learned in her marketing while in Germany how marketing in Europe is quite different to the US. What would be considered great in the US is often considered over the top and unrealistic in Europe.
As with many photographers, Heike was photographing from an early age, and enjoyed looking at Vogue and other magazines to see the photography. She found her photoshoot ended up turning into a consultation about people’s business, where it wanted to go and what message it wanted to convey.
Heike has a studio. Initially, this was a converted garage. She now has a home studio with backdrops and lighting. But she also has a kitchen area for lifestyle images. So she does 98% of her shoots in the studio. But some clients want shots at their location. Heike uses both natural and artificial light in the studio. She likes the natural light look, but can use artificial light to help with that.
Heike says clients need shots with appropriate space so that clients can repurpose them, with different messaging.
Heike says she doesn’t show clients images during the shoot. She finds some clients can start to tear themselves apart during the shoot, which destroys the later images and mood of the studio. She does shots for about 90 minutes and encourages clients to bring lots of different outfits. Heike also thinks this means clients buy more images as they have a greater variety of images. She says a range of looks is good. From very formal to more casual. So it gives the impression on social media that people are getting to know them. She also says it’s important that the clothes are right for the client and they don’t bring clothes they would never usually wear.
Marcus asks Heike where she gets clients. She says she has been discussing this with other photographers. She says the Google profile (Google Business) is working well. She says posting here can help you get found on the Google search. Marcus’ questions of this exist in the UK (Note from Sam, yes, it does, and we have discussed several times before on the podcast).
Heike has said that using this has increased the number of leads she gets from the Google search. She also uses Instagram. She says the people who are on LinkedIn during the day or are still scrolling Instagram at night.
Heike is also an educator. She started partly as other photographers were asking her for help. So she started to help people. As she helped photographers, she found that she had some things that were different from other brand photography educators. She said photographers were wanting things like poses, but she says it needs to start much deeper than this. She says the images need purpose, not poses. Heike gives a specific example of a client. She got them to think about where she wanted to be in 5 years and asked her to walk into the shoot, as that person. This helped people see her in this new way.
Heike is running several courses at the moment. She has a free giveaway specifically for Shoot to the Top Listeners. This download is to help your clients work out where they want to be in a year or five years. It helps clients think this through and then translate this into what photography they need. She also runs the course from headshot to personal branding. Marcus has taken this course.
“Show Transcription”
Marcus: Well, hello everybody. It’s Marcus here and you’ll be sad to hear I’m on my own this week. Oh, Sam’s not with us. He’s on holiday somewhere. No doubt sunning himself in a beach with a cocktail in his hand, but fear not listeners. You won’t have to listen to me rambling on about this and that we’ve got a guest today. We’ve got a great guest, a real personal favorite of mine. We’ve got Heike Delmore all the way from Canada. I can say how are you doing?
Heike: I’m good. How are you? Thank you for having me.
Marcus: I am very well. And as I said, it’s an absolute pleasure. Heike. Heike. So yeah. Tell me, tell us where you are. First of all.
Heike: So, uh, I’m in Canada. I’m in Windsor, Ontario. I’m originally from Toronto.
Marcus: You have been in brand new photography for an awful long time. How long have you been doing brand new photography?
Heike: I’ve been doing it for about 13 years. Um, yeah, 13 years before that I was doing weddings, but I do come, uh, from a marketing background. I worked in advertising in Canada and also in Germany.
Marcus: Oh, tell me more about that.
Heike: Yes. So, um, I worked in marketing, so basically a lot of design layout, choosing the correct photos that, um, you know, make someone feel something or speak to a target audience, uh, that, that brand wants to attract. So, um, I have a background in that. So that kind of goes nicely with the photography part. And that’s when, uh, you know, about 13 years ago, I married them together and started doing personal branding. And at that time, a lot of people didn’t know what personal branding was. So they still don’t. So people will come and they’ll ask for a headshot, uh, but oftentimes that’s not really what they want.
They just don’t know how to verbalize that they need, uh, branding photos to, you know, tell the story about their brand or what they’re selling or where they’re going or who they’re becoming.
Marcus: Yeah. I’m going to dive into that a little bit more. I just want to step back where you’re saying that. So you were putting these photos, these shoots together in Germany, uh, and you were involved in the production of the shoot, uh, visualization.
Heike: So I wasn’t actually, so basically we were choosing more stock photography at the time. And, um, I remember one, uh, project we were working on, um, when Eurocard and MasterCard were, um, merging and, um, you know, coming from Canada, I guess I didn’t realize, um, that there was a difference in the photography or in photos that would resonate, uh, with people who, you know, live different places or different target audiences. So I remember, um, I put the whole layout together, the whole project, and I thought it was fantastic. And, um, my creative director, you know, looked at me and he’s like, well, this isn’t going to work. And I was like, oh, okay. Um, and I had chosen photos that, you know, were bright and fun. And I thought, you know, hopeful and, and happy. And, um, he pointed out to me that, you know, this doesn’t resonate here. Um, you know, maybe in America, in the German market. And he broke it down for me, which was really enlightening. He said, um, you know, what resonates with people here is something that is a little bit more real, something, yeah, a little bit more realistic, uh, maybe not as joyous and happy, uh, people would interpret that as maybe a little cheesy or fake. Uh, there was, um, you know, even the colors not being as vibrant and bright at the time, uh, something that was a little bit more neutral, um, uh, and, and realistic.
Marcus: So that was giving you a, that job was giving you a great, uh, introduction into the language of photography, the language of images.
Heike: And just knowing when you create an image, you know, what do you want it to say? It’s, you know, great if technically the light is good and, oh, your face looks symmetrical, um, but that isn’t necessarily what draws somebody in, uh, and with personal branding, that is not necessarily what speaks to the client or the person that you’re trying to grab their attention and make them feel something.
Marcus: Yeah. Yeah. Well said definitely. So were you, were you, did you have a camera at that stage or was this something that came later?
Heike: Oh my gosh. Yeah. I was in the camera club in grade seven. Oh, yes. I’ve always, you know, love photography. Uh, I think most photographers would say that, you know, they grew up loving photography. Um, I collected, uh, you know, every fashion magazine, I have my Vogue’s over here from 1990s, uh. Um, so, uh, and I kept them all and I would stare at them in high school and I would rip out my favorite pads and, you know, her Brits, I thought he was, you know, just, uh, you know, he was my absolute favorite.
Marcus: Um, so his, his range of her British’s range in the studio or a fashion shooting location, he could shoot everything and it all had his personal touch to it.
Heike: Absolutely. So I was kind of obsessed with photography to begin with. So everything just kind of came together. Um, you know, to, to come to a personal branding now.
Marcus: Yeah. That makes perfect sense. So, okay. So let’s, so let’s carry on that story you were saying. So basically was at 13, 14 years ago, you started coming into the personal branding space or what, what, what space there was at that time.
Heike: Yes. It was the headshots, uh, that we, I was just, you know, kept talking to the client and learning more about their business and okay. And so where are you going with this? And, you know, are you rolling anything new out this year or you expanding or, you know, and it just kind of grew into a consultation of where they wanted their brand to go, uh, where who they wanted to become, uh, what that looked like, um, and then, you know, I was selling more than just a headshot because, you know, remember that shot where, you know, you, you want to be that speaker, this is the one that we did where you’re in actions, you know, as if you’re speaking to an audience and then they would buy that image because they knew that they would need that in order to market themselves now as a speaker, for example.
Marcus: Exactly. But it’s interesting. I mean, in all that time, I didn’t really, well, change that much there. I say maybe in America, I know people there when I speak to my American colleagues, they are much more aware of the branding and the power of photography, but I think people still do come to me and, you know, they’re just looking for a headshot or they know that’s what they think, isn’t it? They think that’s what they want. It’s just a headshot or that’s the limit of it. Yeah. So you were an early adopter there of changing people’s minds from just thinking about moving beyond the headshot.
Heike: Absolutely. Yes. And like you said, they didn’t they didn’t know that they needed that until we started exploring all of the other places where they could be using photography.
I mean, for example, you go to a website and if you just see the one headshot, that’s not really telling you a lot about who you might be working with, you know, what they’re like to work with. What does their space look like? Or anything like that. It doesn’t tell, you know, it’s like the book cover, right? The headshot is the book cover. The pages within it are the personal branding, right?
Marcus: So generic, so generic. Right. I mean, I think they’ve been becoming more generic now, you know, I mean, I just, they’re just skilled at doing it, definitely, and getting the best out of people in a very short amount of time.
Heike: Yes, that’s another, yeah. Yeah.
Marcus: They do look very similar.
Heike: They do.
Marcus: Okay. So you’re, you’re in your studio now. Is this where you primarily do most of your suits or?
Heike: Yes, that’s a great question. So I usually do, I started off in my garage. So I had a garage that I transformed into my studio. As I moved more into the personal branding, I realized I was like, okay, so now I have two couches and two coffee tables and two of everything. So I moved and I actually have a home studio now. So the first two rooms are backdrops and lighting. But we’ll also use, for example, the kitchen area and the lifestyle area to get that variety in photo. So I do most of my shoots here. My clients really like to come here because I guess they see the photos that I have, you know, on my Instagram, on my website, and most of those have been done here. So I’d say, yeah, 98% of the shoots we do here.
Marcus: Okay, 98% that’s all of them, isn’t it?
Heike: Well, I will say sometimes clients will want to do a little bit of a hybrid shoot so we can start off here. And if it’s close enough by, you know, I can go to their location. You know, if they’ve opened up a new brick and mortar location or something like that, we can go out there for some additional photos.
Marcus: And just without getting too technical, we’re not a technical show here, but are you using natural light in the studios or are you using flash lighting or what kind of lighting you use?
Heike: So I use a variety of both. I really love the look of natural light. I feel like it it’s especially for personal branding, it gives that realness. But I do also use strobes when needed. And I like to bounce the strobe if it’s a gloomy day, for example, like today, you know, I like to bounce it off other walls to give that natural light. Effect to the photos.
Marcus: Yeah. I mean, I encourage our listeners to seek out hikers work. It looks beautiful.
And it’s definitely got a very distinctive style, very editorial.
Heike: Yes, I love that. No doubt about that.
Marcus: And the reason I say editorial is got you leave a lot of space for text and logos and stuff like that. And then you’ve got a really good eye for the placing of the subject.
Heike: Absolutely. And that is also what clients need in personal branding so they can repurpose those photos. Right. So, you know, we kind of touched on this, so what we spoke before. But, you know, a video oftentimes you can use it once. Right. With a photo, you can oftentimes repurpose it within your brand with different messaging to, you know, get a lot of use out of it.
Marcus: Oh, and in some ways, in some ways, it’s a bit of our downfall, isn’t it? You know, we give them so much material that they can, you know, in sometimes and up until for a year or even two years from one photo shoot, you know. And that’s great because you’re using your own space. You know, inside out, you know what’s going to work. It’s going to, you know, you know, your camera angles. That must really help out a lot, actually. It does.
Heike: It really does. It really speeds up the process.
Marcus: Do you shoot tethered at all? Do you shoot to the computer or just use the back of the camera?
Heike: That’s a good question. So, I don’t shoot tethered. And I don’t show the client the back of the camera during the shoot. I found that it can either… It’s 50-50. So, it can either, you know, really spur the person on and they’re like, wow, this is going great. Or they can start picking themselves apart. And that can totally change the atmosphere, the feeling that they have for the rest of the shoot. So, I don’t show them the back. I say, no, no, no, I don’t shoot any… I don’t show anyone the back of the camera. But I’m excited to show you the photos after the shoot.
Marcus: Yeah, great. And that’s a nice… How long would your shoot normally last with an average client?
Heike: Yes. So, the average client, we do hair and makeup here. So, hair and makeup meets them here in the studio. And I shoot for an average, I would say about 90 minutes. Yeah. I make a plan. You know, they bring in their outfits. I found that the more outfits that they bring in, the more that they’re likely to walk away with and purchase. But it also gives them variety too. You’re already here. You’re already getting hair and makeup done. We might as well, you know, do a variety. So, you can choose after which ones are your favorites.
So, yeah.
Marcus: I agree with you there. Now, I have been thinking lately about when you think about branding and you look at like a TV show, like, you know, a documentary show that’s over like a few weeks, the presenting normally wears the same clothes throughout, don’t they? Because that does give you a real solid look, you know. I’m thinking of like one of our famous natural history presenters, David Attenborough.
Heike: Oh, I love him.
Marcus: Yes, yes. He always wears chinos, you know, in a light blue shirt. And that’s what you identify with him. But I can also see how that would need maybe buying less prints or using less photos. I don’t know.
Heike: Yes. No, you make a great point. And I found too that psychologically when people have, I tell my clients to bring three to five outfits. Men usually bring three. Women usually bring five or six. But within that range to have, you know, make that first one your super professional look. The middle one’s more of a, you know, a business casual look and then one casual look. And the reason I want that variety is so when they’re using the images, you know, for social media or their website, people actually feel like they know that person outside of the office. If you can show them in different clothing, not just the clothes that they would wear in the office. And that makes them more memorable. And people actually feel like they know them. Oh, she’s just like me. I’m going to get along with her. I’ll hire her for this or that. So yes, having a change of clothes, you can sell more photos, but also the photos are working for your client.
Marcus: I think I know I do the same issue, you know, even though I’ve got this idea about one outfit, it’s never going to happen. I love clothing. I find my background is as a fashion photographer. And I just find I get so much from the clothing. If an outfit on, I immediately can just see how I can do a different shoot with it or a detail or something I might hone in on. So the clothing is a massive part.
Heike: Yes.
Marcus: It must be the same for you.
Heike: Absolutely. And, you know, with the clothing too, you know, I try to tell people don’t bring in stuff that isn’t you, right? This isn’t a makeover, right? So this is the difference between, difference between like portrait photography and personal branding. We want you to still be recognizable. We don’t want someone to meet you in person and say, hey, where’s Susan? And you’re like, oh, that’s me, right? We want you to look like you, but on a just really good, super fresh, polished day.
Marcus: Exactly right. And that’s what being, you know, and it’s still authentic, isn’t it? This price word is still off. It’s still them. It’s just, as you say, them on their best day.
Heike: Absolutely.
Marcus: I like that a lot. So what about you finding most of your clients these days? Heike.
Heike: Yes, that’s okay. So interesting. Google. So this is something that I just was talking about. I have a top performers group for everyone who’s gone through my coaching mastermind in the top performers group. And they’re all the ones who are just, you know, kicking butt in personal branding photography. And we discussed Google profile and so Google profile. So it used to be Google business or Google places or Google this and that. So yes, you can upload photos to that profile or to your business, but there’s also a section that is called updates where, so just like you can, you know, do a Instagram post, you can now post daily on your Google profile and Google rewards you. They’re like, Oh, thank you for using Google. And when someone does a Google search, they’re more likely to show you in that organic search, you know, hopefully on the first page as a reward. I guess Google is like, thank you for using us.
Marcus: So that is so I, I know Google my business and we talked about this on the show. It’s the, it’s the thing that comes up, you know, with a picture of where you are and yes, with the map and so forth. Yeah.
Marcus: I got you. I wonder if this has been rolled out in the UK. This updates. That sounds very, very good.
Marcus: So if you go on your own Google places or Google business or whatever you want to call it and you scroll down, you can see where it says, I believe it says updates and you can. So what I do is I take my, what I post on Instagram, for example, take that same content, just repurpose it. So I’ll take the tags out, for example, and maybe put like a URL cause you can hyperlink in it in the Google profile update. And I will just repurpose those photos and the text that I put down the description or the caption and put it in Google. So I’ve noticed in the last month, because on my intake form, it says, how did you hear about me? Cause I want to know where my marketing is working and where it’s not. And a lot of it is saying Google, whereas before it was some of it, but I’ve noticed an increase.
Marcus: Wow. And it’s free as well, isn’t it?
Heike: Yes, it’s free.
Marcus: I love it. Cause I noticed you’re not, you don’t do LinkedIn very much. I did look at your LinkedIn profile.
Heike: You know, I should.
Marcus: Well, look, why should you? You get a new work from other ways. I mean, I’ve been LinkedIn in the UK quite a bit. I think it’s actually a little, it seemed different in the UK to how it is in America. Maybe, maybe kind of do as well. But in Instagram, certainly you’ve mentioned a few times, you’re at home on Instagram.
Heike: And I feel that, um, you know, people at least here in the day, they’re on LinkedIn perhaps. Right. But at night before they go to bed, they’re still scrolling on Instagram. Right.
So I’m still capturing, uh, those same people just at a different time of day.
Marcus: Yeah. That’s a good point. Okay. Okay. So here we are. You’ve got a beautiful business going there. Um, you’ve got your studio set up. You’ve got a great intake of people coming in. How did you start to get into the education side?
Heike: So what I noticed, uh, well, a lot of people started asking me, um, you know, for help, uh, other photographers. Um, I was also one of the first mentors, uh, with Sue Bryce. Um, so yes, back then. Um, and I was the only one doing personal branding back then, right? They were all doing portraits and so forth. But I was really drawn to the personal branding side of it. So, um, I got a taste of it there. Um, and then I noticed, um, you know, when people were asking me for help, um, what really set my approach apart from, you know, what other people were teaching in personal branding. So, um, sometimes for example, people will say, uh, you know, do you have a checklist, uh, that I can have or I need to know some poses. I don’t know how to pose my client. And, um, I noticed that that is very surface, right? So this is what I do is not one size fits all. It’s personal, right? It’s personal branding. I want to do something different. I want to create a brand, a streamlined look that is, you know, personalized to that client based on, you know, not only who they are, but who are you becoming? Right? Who do you, you know, what are your goals within this year, two years, five years? So I don’t start with a pose. Uh, I start with a purpose.
Marcus: Ah, beautiful.
Heike: Right. So, um, and then the poses come based around those purposes. Um, I’ll give you an example. Uh, a lady Ashley came to me, she was a wellness coach and she had done a photo shoot before with another photographer and she loved her images. Uh, she said, but they, these aren’t taking me where I want to go to. They’re kind of just showing where I am right now. Right. So we started discussing the purpose. Okay. So what are your goals? Where are you going with your business? And she had mentioned, okay, well, I’d love to work with these, you know, top brands in my industry. That’s probably going to take about five years for them to, uh, really see me or believe that I am the right person, uh, to work with them. So what we did during the shoot was we coached her during the shoot to embody that person who she thought she, you know, would be in five years. Walk in as that person. How does she walk in? How does she hold herself when people have a problem? How does she solve that problem? How was that different from how you are right now? How was that different from how people perceive you right now? What is the difference? What are we taking away? What are we adding? And so we did the shoot. She loved her photos and she started using those photos. So, uh, during the shoot, we got her to embody and walk in as that person she wanted to become. But now she had the photos and she was using those on her website and her social media. And six months later, she, she wrote me an email and she’s like, you are not going to believe this. Remember that brand that I said, um, you know, I wanted to work with. They reached out to me and we’re working together. So we collabed. What she thought was going to take five years into six months because she was already walking in the room as that person, but also other people were seeing her now as that person.
Marcus: You’re shaping people’s futures. Like you’re totally predicting, getting them in a space where they want to be. That has got such incredible value.
Heike: Thank you. And I, you know, I wouldn’t say I’m shaping it. I’m taking, I’m taking what they’re telling me and I’m, you know, uh, those are words. And then I’m creating a visual around that. So it’s not about a pose and it’s not about a checklist. It’s about, um, okay.
So I’m going to get you to sit over there. Let’s say I make sure the light looks good and everything as well. And, um, and then I coached them with the information they’ve given me to step into where they want to get to or who, who that person looks like.
Marcus: That’s brilliant. Now, we’re coming up to the end of the show. So sad because always go so quickly. But I mean, I, you don’t know this because you didn’t talk about it with the show, but I actually did one of your courses.
Heike: Oh, did you?
Marcus: Yes. The headshot course that for a headshot to branding or beyond the headshot.
Heike: Yes. From headshot to personal branding. Yeah.
Marcus: Well, what are you, what are you, what courses are you doing in a moment? That makes no interest to our listeners.
Heike: Well, I have a free giveaway for your listeners. Um, and I think I’m going to give it the link to you, Marcus. Um, but what it is, is a download, um, to help your clients figure out where they want to be in a year, five years. So it walks them through that whole process of thinking deeper and questions they can ask themselves. And, uh, the download is three parts. So it dives into those questions so they can sit back and grab a coffee and really think it through. And by the end, by part three in that download, they can actually list out all the places where they’re going to be needing photos, which will help, you know, other photographers, uh, know, okay. Yes. She says she needs something on her about page. Oh, she needs this because she wants to get into speaking. I need to take a photo, you know, where she’s looks like she’s speaking to, uh, an audience and so forth. So, um, I still have the course from headshots, personal branding for photographers that you took. I hope you liked it.
Marcus: Brilliant. Really great. Great. Great Photoshop skills there as well. I mentioned I’m very good at that.
Heike: Thank you. Um, and, uh, and then the free giveaway, uh, will help your clients, uh, or your listeners here. Um, you know, if you want to adopt that approach of not just doing poses, but you know, finding your client’s purpose and building the shoot around the purpose.
Marcus: That is brilliant. We’ll obviously put a link in the show notes. Um, and then just finally, Hike, where’s the future holding for you? What were you moving towards yourself? Heike: Oh, that’s a great question. Um, so I recently took a speaking course cause I’d like to do more speaking and it was so great. And then you emailed me and I’m like, absolutely.
I will be on your show. So I’d like to do more speaking, um, more speaking on, you know, not only podcasts, but at summits, at events, at, um, you know, conferences and so forth.
Marcus: I got to be honest, Hike, I’m surprised you don’t do more. You’re so well known in the industry that you don’t, you don’t do a lot. You don’t do a lot of speaking or do more definitely. Um, what would you be, what, what could you be speaking about personal branding or growth? What kind of things would you be talking about?
Heike: Yes, I would be speaking about personal branding. Um, if the audience is photographers, you know, how to build a profitable and sustainable personal branding business, how to, you know, differentiate a lot of this whole AI stuff coming in, right? Like how do you differentiate your, your, your photos? How do you still get clients when people can just upload their photos to AI and get branding photos, right? How can you still build out that niche and be profitable and sustainable? And then speaking also to entrepreneurs on why it’s important. It’s not just about the photo, right? It’s about, you know, collapsing time and helping you reach your goals faster.
Marcus: Oh, mate. Brilliant. Hike, that has been great. So quick. So quick. And yeah, there’s a lot of stuff you haven’t talked about. I know that we sort of had the idea and the pre-show, but we’re going to get you back on again.
Heike: Well, thank you so much for having me, Marcus. I really appreciate it. And I love talking with you.
Marcus: Okay. Thank you so much, Hike. You’ve been a great guest. And yeah, we look forward to see you on the speaking circuit and even maybe coming over to little LUK over here as well.
Heike: Oh, I’d love that.
